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Manganese Resources in Relation to Domestic Consumption Discussion of paper by JOHN V. W. REYNDERS, presented at the Cleveland Meeting and issued, as Pamphlet No. 1656-C, with MINING AND METALLURGY, May, 1927. A. G. BETTS, Kinderhook, N. Y. (written discussion).-When a business concern hires an office boy, it takes on the first bright-appearing young chap to apply and pays him the prevailing rate of wages. One of the chief tasks the .office boy is supposed to be competent to perform, is to clean out the office. The manager of the business is highly competent in many lines, but for some reason lacks the ability to keep the office clean. To the steel man, it would seem that manganese is the office boy, and it is purchased just as found and offered to the purchasing agent. The steel mill is competent to perform many functions on a grand scale and with wonderful efficiency, but it is unable to make real steel. It is the function of the office boy, manganese, to do this. It is open to serious doubt if steel mill operators have ever taken seriously the metallurgy of the preparation of crude manganese. It has merely been found that some usable crude manganese may be obtained by running certain manganese ores through an iron furnace when not busy on anything else, or remote from iron ore, or with a lining that is about gone. It is, however, an entirely unwarranted assumption that the metallurgy of manganese has been worked out, or that the supplies of usable raw ore must be limited to materials of some specified analysis. There was a time when ores of copper, lead and zinc, for example, had to be rich and of specified analysis, to be usable, but the commercial raw materials of today bear little resemblance to such ores of the past. The discussions of manganese that I have seen are based on the assumption that the metallurgy of manganese is fully established and that the only usable manganese raw materials are of the kind used today. These discussions contain another error, not so much of statement, but of implication-that the tonnages of manganese materials in the United States are so much in this state and so much in that. When it requires a period of years and the expenditure of millions of dollars for a competent mining company to explore thoroughly a few acres of mining ground, is it not absurd to say that there are so many hundred tons of manganese ore in a certain state? This fact is not apt to be known fully in 10,000, years. I do not charge the mining engineers. who are on record, of making misstatements, because they merely say that so much

Jan 5, 1927

Operating Characteristics of Centrifugal Fans and Use of Fan Performance Curve Discussion of paper by. Louis W. HUBER, presented at the New York Meeting, 1926, .and issued, as Pamphlet No. 1542-A, with MINING AND METALLURGY, February, 1926. G. BRIGHT, Pittsburgh, Pa.-Apparently from the pressure curves for a forward-curved-blade fan, in Mr. Huber's paper, practically all ventilation-might be stopped with increased resistance. In order, to discuss the characteristics of a fan we need, some better way to measure the characteristics of a mine. You all know that. the average anemometer is not very-reliable. Sometimes two anemometers, supposed to be recently calibrated, will differ 50 per cent. Either this or some other committee should standardize measuring methods. The characteristic curves of fans, given by Mr. Huber, would indicate that the forward-curved-blade fan would cause trouble in attempting parallel operation, because two machines will not parallel unless they have dropping pressure characteristics. On the other hand, it is indicated that with the backward-curved blade, they could easily be paralleled. But few mines use more than one fan. Mr. Huber said that if the resistance of the mine was considerably more than contemplated, the quantity of air might be such that the efficiency of the backward-curved fan would be seriously affected, dropping say from 70 to 55 or 50 per cent. In such event, could a difference of speed be selected for the fan that would give the quantity desired at a higher efficiency? L. W. HUBER, Pittsburgh, Pa.-The backward-curved-blade fan responds to change in speed the same as any other fan; if' the speed is doubled, the quantity of air is doubled, the pressure is increased four times and the horsepower eight times. One point not mentioned in the paper is that the backward-curved fan is more efficient than the forward-curved or any other type. If the latter were more efficient, it would pay to install that type and keep the resistance of the mine constant, which is hard to do but it can be done with care. But the total mechanical efficiency of a fan with backward-curved blades is from 10 to 20 per cent. higher.

Jan 1, 1927

Air-sand Process of Cleaning Coal Discussion of paper by THOMAS FRASER and H. F. YANCEY, presented at the New York Meeting, 1926, and issued, as Pamphlet No. 1561-F, with MINING AND METALLURGY, February, 1926. T. DEVENNY, Edgarton, W. Va.-How near the size of the sand can the coal to be treated be brought? Do you use an 8-mesh coal on that cleaner? J. J. RUTLEDGE, Baltimore, Md.-From the little I have seen of the apparatus in operation, I should say 8-mesh. In my experience in metalmine concentration work, trying to separate different minerals on one jig, sometimes I have succeeded and sometimes not. This apparatus has appealed to me; something of this kind should be useful with the silicates and carbonates of zinc. I think this apparatus has possibilities in metal mining. Recently in our coal field a screen has been introduced for cleaning coal; it is giving excellent service. When I asked the inventor why he did not take it to the metal mines, he said there was a good and sufficient reason, in a patent way. There may be reasons why it would not be applicable for metal mining; but the simplicity of it appeals to me and I cannot see why it could not be so used. T. FRASER (written discussion).-We feel that 8-mesh would be about -the minimum size of coal practicable to treat by the air-sand process. This would depend partly upon the friability of the coal. The more nearly the lower size limits of the coal- approaches the size of the sand, the more .time will be required in screening the sand out of the cleaned coal, which would mean a little more chance of breakage. In regard to the treatment of ores; this would necessitate the use of some heavier mediums than ordinary silica sand, or some other means of making the separation at a higher specific gravity than is required for coal. We are now working on a method of obtaining this effect for the preparation of anthracite coal without resorting to the use of heavier and more expensive material than common sand.

Jan 1, 1927

By K. J. Ma, L. Ma, J. Stankus

The paper’s intent is to evaluate pumpable foamed cementitious mine seal material by determining the shear strength of a generic foamed cement in the laboratory. The tests were conducted on three scales: small-size specimens, consisting of cylinders 4 in. in diameter or 3-in. prisms; double shear medium- size specimens, measuring 13 in. by 10 in.; and large-size specimens, measuring 6 ft by 4 ft by 4 ft. The small-specimen shear tests resulted in average peak and residual shear strengths of 128 psi and 56 psi, respectively. These values are fairly consistent with published shear strengths of foamed cementitious material. However, the other two types of shear tests did not achieve the shear strength of a typical pumpable foamed cementitous mine seal material. Based on the test results, the paper concluded that the structural analysis of cement foam seals should be based on their residual shear strengths, approximately 20 psi, determined from small laboratory-scale tests of the cement foam/concrete or rock interface, and not be based on their peak strengths.

Jan 1, 2015

By R. W. Smith, K. H. Lee Discussion by Fred C. Bond

Fred C. Bond (Tucson, Ariz.) — This is a valuable paper presenting much well directed research testing. It describes a practical method by which the long and relatively accurate Bond closed-circuit grindability can be adapted to a known ore so that results of comparable accuracy can be obtained on the same ore from much shorter batch grinding tests. This can be very useful in control work. In large mills a routine batch grinding test on the head sample can be made each day, or even each shift, to check grinding performance by comparison of the work index from each mill grinding section with that obtained from testing. However, it would be well to re-standardize the batch test against a Bond test, perhaps once a week at

Jan 1, 1969

By D. C. Shelton, C. S. Ek

Corneille S. Ek (Assistant Professor in Ore Dressing, University of Liege, Liege, Belgium) — This is a very valuable paper, in that it shows how it is possible to take care of a multitude of laboratory routine tests, and derive from them successful modifications of flowsheets or of operating methods. The author and the Company appear to be test-minded and this is best seen through the case histories described. There are however some corrections to be made, and questions arise when one studies the paper. If all the equations are to be homogenous, one obviously has to write Eq. 4 On the other hand, it is difficult to accept the definition put on Eq. 7, for that equation, which represents the factor of transformation from tpd of solids to cu ft per min of pulp in Eq. 6, has nothing to do with conditioning. It is evidently assumed here that conditioning means, as Gaudin calls it,' modulation of collection. One would prefer, for Eq. 7, the appel-ation "pulp conversion factor". Eq. 8 and 9, giving the amount of reagent to be fed

Jan 1, 1965

By J. J. Scott, L. Adler3

L. Adler (Assoc. Professor, Department of Mining Engineering, Virginia Polytechnic Institute, Blacks-burg, Va.) - Dr. Scott is to be commended for undertaking the arduous and specialized task of applying three-dimensional photoelastic techniques to a mining problem. However, 1 feel his analysis suffers seriously from a lack of clarification on one important matter, among several others; and that the paper as a whole lacks balance and thus tends to confuse the reader. 1) The major technical criticism refers to the fact that nowhere are the boundary conditions for his mod-

Jan 1, 1964

By R. W. Smith. Discussion by D. Watson, R. M. Manser

D. Wotson, R. M. Monser (Watten Spring Laboratory, Stevenage, Herts., U. K.) - This is a valuable and interesting paper and will make an important contribution to the development of a general theory of silicate flotation. In particular the dominance of surface reactions which produce fluosilicic acid and its ions has been convincingly demonstrated. In a paper to be published shortly, however, we offer some evidence which is not consistent with the feldspar activation theory proposed by Prof. Smith. This theory, given in Eqs. 17-20, suggests that activation takes place through the exchange of SiF6 ions for OH- at aluminum sites. This results in a negatively charged site facilitating adsorption of RNH3 Firstly, we have determined the flotation response (using the vacuum flotation technique) and the adsorption of dodecylamine on a natural feldspar (albite) and on the same feldspar after washing with perchloric acid at pH3. This pre-treatment was shown to remove surface adjacent aluminum atoms. It was found that although the acid washed feldspar floated much less easily than the untreated sample, the function of fluoride ion - giving activation over the pH range 4-6.5-was preserved. Moreover, the amount of dodecylamine adsorbed either with or without fluoride present is little affected by acid-washing, despite the depression caused by this treatment. This suggests that surface aluminum atoms can be of little importance in the fluoride activation mechanism. Secondly, we have determined the changes in solution concentration of F- and H+ (or OH-) accompanying reaction of the surface with fluoride ion. The ratio of H+ lost from solution to F- lost is high, ranging from 6.9 at pH4 to 1.0 at pH 7.5. This is consistent with reaction of HF (6 molecules for every Si removed) at the surface, producing SiFi-ions, but not with the re-adsorption of these ions.

Jan 1, 1967

By Ross W. Smith, M. E. Wadsworth, T. James Smolik, A. S. Peck

Ross W. Smith (Acting Instructor, Department of Mineral Engineering, Stanford University, Stanford, Calif.) and T. James Smolik (Kennecott Copper Corp., Salt Lake City, Utah) - Professors Peck and Wads-worth have made an interesting contribution to the study of fluoride activation of beryl. We have a few comments to make regarding the paper and a question to ask of the authors. We note that glass containers were used in the study. Hydrofluoric acid should react with glass to produce SiFg2 in quantity which could adsorb onto the beryl surface (onto either beryllium or aluminum sites). The authors propose that individual F- ions actually go into the mineral surface lattice rather than onto the surface by adsorption of siFi2 ions. Based on infrared reverse bands with an untreated

Jan 1, 1969

By L. W. Pommier, L. R. Plitt, F. B. Brien

L. R. Plitt (Assistant Professor of Mining and Metallurgy, University of Alberta, Canada.) — It is indeed encouraging to see rheological studies being carried out in a mineral engineering school. The bulk of the work being done today in applied rheology seems to be concerned with the behavior of polymeric solutions and thus has limited application to the solid-liquid systems encountered in mineral beneficiation. The authors have approached the problem by carrying out a dimensional analysis which showed that for power law fluids the drag coefficient, Ds, must be some function of a generalized Reynolds number which has the form: If the power law adequately describes the behavior of a fluid, the dimensional analyses predicts that the Ds - RN function should hold for all values of n' or any other dependent variable. The experimental evi-

Jan 1, 1968

By C. C. Harris Discussion by B. K. Loveday

B. K. Loveday (National Institute for Metallurgy, Johannesburg, Republic of South Africa) - The paper and subsequent technical note' describing a method of determining the parameters of the three-parameter size-distribution equation developed in the paper were read with much interest. This equation was also used at National Institute for Metallurgy (NIM) to describe size distributions in grinding tests, because it was necessary to have a single equation to describe the size distribution at any time during a test. A graphical method also was used to determine the three parameters, and the use of this method as an alternative to Professor Harris's latest method is discussed here. The three-parameter model can be expressed as follows: Eq. 1 can be rearranged and transformed to Yield a linear reiationship between Y and X (transformed) log

Jan 1, 1970

By A. L. Mular. Discussion by G. A. Parks

G. A. Parks (Associate Professor, Dept. of Mineral Engineering, Stanford Univ., Stanford, Calif.) - Professor A. L. Mular in his paper Effect of Impurities on the Flotation Behavior of Zinc Oxide (T.P. 65B206) has made a most interesting and thought provoking contribution. In view of his recognized lack of measurements of the ZPC's of the doped samples and lack of direct evidence for participation of semi-conducting electrons in collector adsorption an alternate explanation should be considered. The alternate also

Jan 1, 1967

By H. R. Cooper, T. S. Mika

T. S. Mika (Department of Mineral Technology, University of California, Berkeley, Calif.) - Dr. Cooper's attempt to establish a correlation between process behavior and operational variables on the basis of a statistical analysis after imposing a reasonable process model is a very commendable improvement on the use of standard regression techniques. However, it must be recognized that the imposition of a model has the potential of yielding a poorer representation if its basic assumptions or mathematical formulation are invalid. It appears that at least two aspects of his treatment require some comment. First, the limitations on the kinetic law where xta represents a hypothetical terminal floatable solids concentration (cf. Bushell1), should be mentioned. Most current investigations2-9 appear to utilize the concept of a distribution of rate constants rather than a single unique value, k, to describe flotation kinetics. A distributed rate constant is certainly a more physically meaningful concept than that of a terminal concentration. The study of Jowett and safvi10 strongly indicates that xta is merely an empirical parameter, whose actual behavior does not correspond to that expected from a true terminal concentration. Rather than being a strictly mineralogical variable, as Dr. Cooper's treatment implies, it apparently represents the hydromechanical nature of the test cell as well as the flotation chemistry. The extension of batch cell kinetic results to full-scale continuous cell operation is a suspect procedure if the effect of such nonmineralogical influences on x,, remain unevaluated. There is evidence that introduction of a terminal concentration is necessitated by the inherent errors which arise in batch testing and are eliminated by continuous testing methods.' Possible lack of validity of the author's use of Eq. 1 is indicated by two unexpected results of the statistical analysis of his batch data. The first is the apparent corroboration of the assumption that the rate constant, k, is independent of particle size, i.e., of changes in the size distribution of floatable material. This assumption directly contradicts numerous results 2,4,11-l8 for cases where first order kinetics prevailed and ignores the phenomenological basis for the analysis of flotation in terms of a distribution of k's. It must be recognized that, if the rate constant is size dependent, the lumped over-all k would be time dependent; Eq. 1 would then no longer be valid. Cooper's x,, is determined by batch flotation of a distribution of sizes for an arbitrary period of time. If the size dependence of k is artificially suppressed, x,, will become a function of the experimental flotation time used in its determination. Upon reviewing the rather extensive literature concerning batch flotation kinetics, there appear to be few instances where constant k and x,, adequately adsorb variations in floatability due to particle size. The second surprising result is the low values of the distribution modulus, n, determined. Contrary to Cooper's assertion, most batch grinding (ball or rod mill) products yield values of n > 0.6, which increase as the material becomes harder.'' It is likely that the values of n = 0.25 and n = 0.42 for Trials 1 and 2, respectively, are completely unreasonable, and even the value n = 0.54 obtained for Trial 3 is unexpectedly low. Possibly, this indicates inherent flaws in the three trial models considered, in particular the assumed particle size independence of the rate constant, k. The above does not necessitate that Eq. 1 (and the terminal concentration concept) is invalid; it could constitute a good first approximation. However, the qualitative arguments used by Dr. Cooper in its justification are somewhat frail and require verification, particularly since much of the flotation kinetics literature is in opposition. Apparently, no effort was made to test these hypotheses on the actual data; in fact, since they pertain to a single batch test time, his data cannot be utilized to evaluate the kinetics of flotation. To evolve a control algorithm on the basis of this infirm foundation seems a questionable procedure. Another difficulty in his analysis arises in consideration of the froth concentrating process. As Bushel1 ' notes, for Eq. 1 to be valid it is necessary that the rate of recycle from the froth be directly proportional (independent of particle size) to the rate of flotation transport from the pulp to the froth, a restrictive condition." Harris suggests that it is more realistic to assume that depletion occurs in proportion to the amount of floatable material in the pertinent froth phase volume (treating that volume as perfectly mixed).12,21,22 The physical implications of

Jan 1, 1968

By O. M. McRae. Discussion by R. W. Jones

R. W. Jones (Senior Exploration Geologist, Standard Oil Co. of California, Box 250, Seattle, Wash.) -Mr. McRae6 and his colleagues are to be congratulated for providing a more coherent structural synthesis of the complex structure in the Courtland-Gleeson area, Cochise County, Arizona, than the "gigantic thrust breccia" concept of Gilluly. 4 However, a few problems of interpretation remain. It is the intent of this note to point out some of these problems, and, drawing on my own work in the area as well as the work of McRae6 and Gilluly, 4 to suggest some interpretations which differ from those previously published. GRAVITY SLIDES In an unpublished manuscript (Jones5) I previously argued that most of the complex structures in the Courtland-Gleeson area can be most reasonably interpreted in terms of gravity sliding caused by uplift and eastward tilting of Jurassic intrusives and associated Paleozoic rocks. Although the field work and drill hole data described by McRae6 provided excellent documentation for two important gravity slides, McRae6 interpreted the basic structure in the Courtland-Gleeson area in terms of major eastward directed thrusting. I continue to disbelieve the

Jan 1, 1967

By I. Hawke, K. Barron

I. Hawkes (Postgraduate School in Mining, University of Sheffield, Sheffield, England) — The photoelastic stressmeter is proving to be a very practical tool for 'in-situ' measurements in the fields of civil and mining engineering and Barron's article has therefore come at a very opportune time, supplementing as it does, the considerable amount of laboratory and field data which is being accumulated.1,2,3 There are however several points relating the application of Barron's conclusions to the practical use of the meter which require further elucidation. EASE OF READING If the photoelastic stressmeter is to have a wide application, the fringe orders must be easily measured. The system adopted by the writer and his colleagues at Sheffield for the uniaxial stress case is to read the fringe order at the 45 point, 0.20 in. from the center (11/4 in. diam meter). This procedure has been recommended because the fringes not at this point form a very distinct 'eye' which is obvious even to those who have had little experience with photoelastic fringe patterns. Barron points out that this point can also be used up to a stress ratio of 0.33 and in practice this is normally done. In biaxial fields above a ratio of 0.33 the 'eye' is no longer apparent and the fringe order must be ascertained at some other point. The writer and his colleagues experimented at various points and finally chose a point at a distance 0.175 in. (11/4 in. diam meter) on the minor stress axis and fixed this point on the meter by inserting a collar of this diameter. This procedure enables the 'eye' technique to be used for uniaxial stresses as the 'eye' falls outside the collar; any other technique for biaxial patterns would require lines to be engraved on the meter itself and reading difficulties would be experienced by all but the most highly trained. It is interesting to point out that in a great many field applications ranging from underground pillars to building foundation piles the stresses measured have been uniaxial. In such cases, reading the fringe order has been simple even for unskilled persons. SENSITIVITY The photoelastic stressmeter acts as an inclusion, and as such its theoretical behavior is as described by Barron's mathematical analysis. When considering its practical application, however, it must be remembered that rocks and concrete are not mathematically ideal substances. The theory relates the fringe order in the meter to the stresses and the E (Young's Modulus) and the µ (Poisson's Ratio) values of the surrounding material. There is of course no unique E or µ value for rocks or concrete. These values change both with stress level and time load application sometimes to the order of 300%. We at Sheffield have very accurately calibrated the photoelastic stressmeter in a wide range of materials and have also measured the average E values for these materials. The results prove that the meter sensitivity

Jan 1, 1965

By W. D. Haentjens, A. P. Pipilen, M. Weintraub, A. A. Orning

W. D. Haentjens (Barrett, Haentjens and Co., Hazleton, Pa.) — The authors are to be complimented on undertaking a project which has little available experimental data. There are so many variables in the hydraulic transport of solid materials that it is difficult to correlate the experimental information from one series of tests into usable data involving other materials or even similar materials but of different size consists. The friction data is of particular interest to those involved in pipeline design. Most such pipelines, however, involve portions which are not level and the effect of sloping or vertical lines might also be considered in extensions of this test work. Pump manufacturers are concerned about criticism resulting from the stated amount of degradation occurring in a pump. The amount of degradation is affected somewhat by pump design and this should be taken into consideration. The pump which was loaned for this work was a modification of a standard medium duty slurry pump. This modification was for maximum particle size, however if minimum degradation is the object, then other design changes would be indicated. Although there is a tendency to be less concerned with degradation in industrial applications, it is nevertheless an important factor in many uses and further studies should be made. In particular, the amount of degradation could possibly be segregated into more classifications, rather than charge some losses to the pump which apparently are occurring in other handling. It seems difficult to evaluate the degradation which occurs in handling the coal into the pump sump and in removing it from the line into the tank. Each handling, of course, contributes some degradation, as does the screening operation itself. These are all charged to the pump, or to the pipe line and pump together; and, although they may be small, they could possibly be evaluated. It is interesting to note the verification of the old rule of thumb of maximum particle size equal to approximately one-third of the pipe size. Our experience has shown size distribution to have an effect on the flow characteristics and if this data is available for the tests which were run, it would be interesting supplementary information. A. P. Pipilen, M. Weintraub and A. A. Orning (Authors' Reply) — In this paper the authors have attempted to outline some of the major factors affecting a rational design for a solids-liquid transport system. They are grateful to Mr. Haentjens for pointing out several other equally important considerations. Pump manufacturers, in general, should be complimented on the strides that have been made in decreasing particle degradation within the pump. Considerable research and a great deal of mathematical analysis is required before pump design in this field can become a science rather than an art, for each system requires a different set of compromises. As Mr. Haentjens indicates, maximum-particle-size handling capability may be inconsistent with minimum degradation; even more important, the rotor profile for the most efficient transfer of energy to the fluid may have to be compromised to reduce particle breakage, for, whenever particle density differs from fluid density, the two phases will have different trajectories. Some evidence of this geometric factor is provided by a cursoy analysis in the Bureau of Mines Report of Investigations now in preparation, where it is indicated that, for the pump used, degradation decreased when the tangential velocity was decreased and when the radial velocity was increased. This relation, itself, is probably a function of particle size and concentration. Some data on particle size distribution, as requested by Mr. Haentjens, will be provided in the Report of Investigations referred to above in addition to that already presented in Table II of the original paper. However, in the limited number of tests it is difficult to distinguish between cause and effect, for not only did the particle size distribution alter the flow characteristics, but, through the medium of degradation, the operating conditions rapidly altered the particle size distribution.

Jan 1, 1965

By R. W. Smith, R. W. M. Lai, J. Leja

J. Leja (Professor, Dept. of Mineral Engineering, U.B.C. Vancouver, Canada) — I would like to offer some comments on the behavior of contact angle with time, treated in this paper. The authors should be congratulated for a clear exposition of these uncommon departures in the correlation between flotation and contact angle, in systems of importance to industrial practice. Some nine years ago Professor J. H. Schulman (presently at Columbia University, New York) and I reported on a similar study conducted at the Ernest Oppenheimer Laboratory, Cambridge, England.' The systems used by us had, how- ever, no direct practical application at that time, as mercury in solutions of xanthates was tested with a variety of alkyl-aryl polyoxyethylene frothers which were then new to flotation practice. Further, the paper dealt with findings contrary to the then widely held belief that the contact angle established in collector-solution is unaffected by the addition of a frother. Correlation with flotation, or lack thereof, was not sought, though we did suggest that in many cases the selectivity of frothers might be influenced by the dynamic contact angles. We also stated (on p. 243,

Jan 1, 1968

By W. I. Duvall, D. E. Stephenson. Discussion by R. G. K. Morrison

R.G.K. Morrison (Chairman, Dept. of Mining Engineering and Applied Geophysics, McGill University, Montreal, Que. Canada) - The authors have introduced a subject, the intensive study of which has awaited scientific developments. These are now such as to justify a thorough review of our thinking on the causes and control of rockbursts. The formulae developed in the paper, the comparison between rockbursts and earthquakes in figure 1 and the energy data relating to explosives serve as an effective foundation. In the paper this writer is quoted as suggesting that energy of the order of 10 x 10 11 ft. lb. may have been released in some of the heaviest rockbursts in the Kolar Gold Field. He now hastens to add that such an estimate has no scientific validity. It arises only from a casual comparison of surface and underground effects of the medium heavy bursts, referred to in the paper and estimated by Jones at 3.0 x 1010 ft.lbs., with those of obviously greater magnitude. In any case, we have the estimate by Jones above, that by a team of seismologists 1 on the Witwatersrand of 10 x 1010 ft.lbs., that by Coates of 3.8 x 10" ft.lbs., also referred to in the paper, that by Blan-chard2 for the catastrophic rockburst at Springhill, N.S., of only 7.4 X 107 ft. lbs., and finally the range covered by Cook, referred to in the paper. It is probable also that data for the heavy rockburst at Merkers3 in the WERRA potash area of Germany are available as it was recorded on seismographs from Moscow to Spain. It is the writer's impression that some standardization is present in the estimates above for 10 x 10 10, 3.8 x 1010 and 7.4 x 107 ft.lbs., respectively. The latter, for Springhill, represents a relatively low order of magnitude. It is obvious that any energy estimate must be related to the local geometry of openings at the time of the event. It is also obvious that any explanation of the causes of rockburst must be capable of providing a wide range of energy. However, we must remember that the energy release is an effect indicating magnitude. The cause lies with the mechanism initiating the primary failure, generating the seismic activity, to which much of the damage is probably due.

Jan 1, 1967

By Paul L. Cloke, S. R. Titley

Paul L. Cloke (Assistant Professor, Dept. of Geology and Mineralogy, The University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Mich.) - On examination of the paper by S. R. Titley it appears that several errors have been made, many of them of a fundamental nature. It is the intent of this discussion to point out these mistakes, and, insofar as possible with the data at hand, to correct them. EXPERIMENTAL WORK Ferrimolybdite-Limonite-Water: The results of the experiments described are very difficult to interpret; nevertheless, a correct interpretation is essential as is pointed out subsequently. The difficulties become apparent when reasons are sought for the continuing change of pH after conversion of ferrimolybdite to ferric hydroxide and for the change of pH when -stirring is stopped after a steady value has been reached. In seeking an explanation of this experiment it seemed to this writer that the (temporarily) steady pH values might be due to kinetic rather than equilibrium effects. In this view the steady pH on stirring might be explained as a balance of several reactions proceeding simultaneously. The first of these would be the slow solution of ferrimolybdite,

Jan 1, 1964

CHARLES CATLETT, Staunton, Va.-A great many important things have been said in an interesting way but the most startling, to me, is that for 25 years, the price has been in the neighborhood of $1.00, with a minimum of 86 cents and a maximum of about $1.25. It is evident that during all that time the price was inadequate. The amount paid to be divided between the land owner, the capitalist, and the laborer was too limited or too irregular to permit of a healthy condition; yet it is evident that the enormous industrial development of this country was fostered by this very cheap coal, probably the cheapest that has been provided in quantity in any country. I entered the coal business when the price was lowest and my interest and sympathy went out to the man who spent his days in the dirt and foul air of a mine and I was filled with schemes for helping. But at the end of the year, after exercising every economy and in blissful ignorance of proper depreciation and obsolescence, there was still only a profit of 1 cent per long ton for what I think is one of the best coals in the world, the best grade of New River coal. We are now paying a great deal more than we did a few years ago and probably will continue to pay more for some time; but any one who thinks we will not have low prices again is very young or very forgetful. Yet we must have larger profits if the industry is to be healthy, if the three parties to the production are to get adequate returns and be in shape to provide the improvements which will be needed to take the place of and supplement the man-power. This will come when the men are making so much money that the operator wants to replace the man by a machine, and when the operator is making so much money as to be in a shape to make the improvements. He will not put in machinery unless the machinery will save money. We have got to pay a higher prime cost for coal, but engineering skill will teach us how to handle it better and use it more economically, and the ultimate result ought to be of advantage to the public.

Jan 3, 1920