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C. D. Demond, Anaconda, Mont. (communication to the Secretary*) :—In order to throw some light on this interesting subject, a series of experiments were made with strips of mild steel, containing about 0.14 per cent. of C and 0.22 per cent. of Ma. These strips were thoroughly cleaned and brightened before use, salts were added to distilled water until it corresponded as nearly as possible to the analysis given by Mr. Lee, and in this water at different temperatures were placed four strips of steel; while four other strips, at corresponding temperatures, were placed in the water used at the Washoe Reduction Works. The latter plant has had no trouble from corrosion of furnace-jackets, pipe-lines or boilers. The analysis of the water used at the Washoe works is: Grains er U. S. Gallon. CaCO3........... 2.92 CaSO3........... 0.76 MgCI3........... 0.64 MgCO3........... 0.58 A1203........... 0.12 Fe2O3........... 0.12 SiO2........... 0.58 NaCl........... 0.35 Organic matter, etc.,........ 1.16 7.23 This water is neutral to litmus; while the artificial Copper Queen water was very slightly alkaline, which Mr. Lee informs us is also true of the water at Douglas. Both waters mere well aerated by pouring from beaker to beaker, and by blowing in air from the experimenter's lungs. The results of these tests, given in Table I., show that there is no significant difference between the effects of the two waters.

Jan 1, 1909

A. Bement, Chicago,Ill. (communication to the Secretary*):— Formerly it was the general practice of engineers to designate coal that is free from moisture and ash as " combustible," notwithstandirig that it contains oxygen and nitrogen. The origin of this practice was more particularly due to the requirements in connection with boiler-testing, which demanded a consideration of that portion of the fuel which took part in the combuition-process because results based on a unit of either moist or dry coal were not comparable, since both moisture and ash were recognized as variable quantities. Thus, a pound of " combustible " became a standard of value, and was treated as a constant before employing measurements of heating-power and calculating therefrom the percentage of efficiency. The recognition of this term " combustible " was an advance to be credited to the engineer rather than to the chemist, because the latter, not having to do with the interpretation of analyses in practice outside the laboratory, usually saw no reason for reporting results in terms other than those of the moist-coal composition. Some years ago I needed a table of fuel-composition in terms of moist, dry, moisture-free and ash-free coal, and of the combustible components. This table required the use of the word combustible in its proper sense, for the purpose of designating carbon, hydrogen, and sulphur, instead of including these three elements with oxygen and nitrogen, to which aggregate the term combustible was formerly applied. To make such a tabulation involved either the use of the inconvenient and cumbersome term, "ash- and moisture-free coal," or of some other representative term, and for this purpose I adopted the expression pure coal, which is short, simple, convenient, and technically correct. It is also harmonious, because it agrees

Jan 1, 1909

Remarks Of Mr. Robert W. Hunt, General Superintendent, Albany And Rensselaer Iron And Steel Company., Troy N. Y. - In discussing Dr. Dudley's two most interesting papers, I feel a natural hesitancy in disagreeing with conclusions formed after such careful and conscientious work. But I think he has made his deductions from too meagre premises. The analyses of but twenty-five samples are entirely too few to justify the establishment of so important a formula. When we consider that he indirectly proposes to regulate an interest amounting, even at the present low prices, to over $20,000,000 per annum, we may well hesitate before accepting a formula based upon the chemical and physical analyses of but twenty-five steel rails. Dr. Dudley touches the keynote in referring to the proposed labors of the Government Test Commission. They based their hopes of attaining success upon the chemical and physical analyses of a very large number of samples, and in the only branch of investigation which the short-sighted policy of Congress has allowed them to complete, i.e., chain cables, we find that a dozen, twenty-five or one hundred tests gave no satisfactory results. It was only after many hundreds that they were enabled to draw conclusions. There are so many circumstances bearing upon the life of a rail, that the task of extracting a correct result seems herculean. I presume I am right in stating that in our Northern latitudes early winter and spring months witness the breaking of the greatest number of rails, thus seeming to prove that an unstable road-bed has much to answer for. Then, again, broken and flattened wheels must be taken into account, but I am convinced that more rails have been broken by the treatment which they received before leaving the rolling-mill * The remarks of the participants in this debate have been written out by the speakers, and are here given without any attempt to retain the order of the dis¬cussion. While the report does not, therefore, preserve the vigor and spontaneity of the debate, it is believed that it gains in value by giving the matured views of the speakers. The continuation of this discussion at the Pittsburgh Meeting, May, 1879 (beginning with remarks of Mr. Cloud on page 401), is appended for convenience of reference.-T. M. D., Sec'y

Jan 1, 1879

Frank Clemes Smith, Deadwood, 8. D. (communication to the Secretary): The reading of Mr. Chance's interesting paper suggests a few ideas relative to his discussion of certain Black Hills gold-ores. Mr. Chance refers to his examination, in 1897, of " the (Carboniferous) limestone plateau-country which encircles the central area of the Black Hills," and says that " it had been generally assumed that the mineralization of this formation was confined to the northern area;" further, that he "found, however, a general mineralization, extending in zones or belts throughout the region," and that the ores, being more or less specially

Jan 1, 1900

Discussion continuing that published in Trans.I.MIn.E ., 1915, vol.L, p.449 and 1916, vol.LI, p.166, included contributions by Smith W., McLaren R., Gibson J., McCreath W., Sneddon J.B., Kirkpatrick J. and Mowat D.M. and a written response by Black J.N.

Dec 1, 1916

H. H. Stoek, Scranton, Pa. (communication to the Secretary): Mr. Rothwell's condemnation of my paper on the International Correspondence Schools as not giving an impartial view of the whole field of such enterprises, because it was confined to the description of a single one, might be legitimate if I had undertaken or professed to do anything else than that which I was requested by the Secretary of the Institute to do—namely, to give an account of this particular institution. This is a sufficient answer to all his direct or implied criticisms upon my omission to mention either persons or organizations outside of the special limits set for me. Recognizing fully that personalities have no place whatever in the Transactions, I regret the necessity of making the following statement in answer to Mr. Rothwell's charge that I omitted to give due credit to Mr. Ewald, a former principal of the International Correspondence Schools. The Colliery Engineer School of Mines was started in 1891, and its first student was enrolled October 16, 1891. During the fall of the same year the mine-mechanical course was laid out along the same general line that had already been followed in the mining course. This mine-mechanical course was the foundation from which sprung the later developments of the several mechanical courses. The latest circulars of information of the International Correspondence Schools give the following as their distinctive features: (1) courses of instruction for particular occupations,

Jan 1, 1900

By Dean S.

Further discussion at the North of England Institute of Mining and Mechanical Engineers' general meeting held in Newcastle-upon-Tyne, 12th February 1916, with Mr. T.Y. Greener, President, in the chair, of the paper published in Trans. I.Min.E. vol.L, 1915, p.179 and 388. Written contributions to discussion included Mr. Dean's reply to earlier discussion (p.35-44), further written contributions by Tate S. (p.44-54) and Brown E.O.F. (p.54-56), and oral comments by Hare S., Merivale J.H., Greener T.Y. and Tate S. Particularly debated were the causes of the difference in output between American and British coal miners

Dec 1, 1916

Jan 1, 1900

PRESIDENT PRYDE: I think that the overcutting machine undoubtedly presents a great many benefits, especially where the roof is frail. I have found a good substitute for the Arcwall, getting a lighter machine by equipping a machine with a turret truck, you get a much lighter weight, and while the cutter is not movable vertically, you cut not on top of the seam, but about the middle of it. MR. SC'HLOSS: I would like to ask Mr. Pryde the advantages of cut- ting with this turret-mounted Shortwall machine. PRESIDENT PRYDE: It is better for development work in narrow places. In development work you have a lot of narrow places. MR. LITTLEJOHN: Mr. Chairman, we were compelled at Winter- quarters, one time, to introduce them for reason of sand rolls'. We have in that mine a condition-we have sand rolls from twelve inches to two and a half feet, sometimes higher than that-usually twelve inches to two and a half feet, and we had to get some of the C. E. 7's on the turret there and used them for advance work not only in the entries, but in rooms; not only in that particular district, but in fact all the districts in the mine-we have abandoned the power trucks. You can cut without unloading, and that is one of the principal advantages, and when the sand rolls come in it enables you to cut over the top of the sand roll, but the particular objection, we were working a nine-foot wall, and some of the coal was twelve feet thick, so that the miners have raised a little objection to the drilling.

Jan 1, 1924

By AIME AIME

THREE of the addresses presented at this interesting and important session are printed in full else- where in this issue. The fourth, Mr. Hewett's paper, on "Cycles In Metal Production" has been issued as Technical Publication 183, and an abstract of it was published on page 162 of last month's issue. The general discussion that followed these four important papers is given in full below. S. A. TAYLOR: I would like to ask Mr. Veasey whether the control of oil in pools includes royalties, and, if so, in case of a new pool how are you going to control, or rather how are you going to describe the limits of that pool?

Jan 1, 1929

Secretary's NOTE—on page 176,of this paper, in the fourth line of the first footnote, " 4° " should, be " 1" )'; and on page 180, at the beginning of line 23, ('lined boot" should be " unlined boot." Discussion. Frank Owen, London, Eng. (communication to the Secretary) : In his very interesting and valuable paper, Prof. Snow

Jan 1, 1900

it may be clearly seen that one of the most rapidly increasing items in mining operations is the cost of the timber alone, to say nothing of the cost of installation. Consequently, any practical means that may be used to lengthen the life of mine timber will greatly tend to decrease mining costs and result in important economies in operation. The four principal agents by which mine timbers are destroyed are, decay, insect attack, fire and mechanical abrasion. Decay and insect attack are credited with more than 50 per cent of the total amount of timber destroyed in the mines. Numerous methods may be used to conserve mine timbers, such as better selection, preparation, storage and segregation. It frequently happens that good timber goes into places where poor timber would do as well, and timber of inferior quality is sent into places where only the best grade should be used. However, the most effective method of conservation is by treatment with some standard preservative to prevent decay. Some of. the benefits to be noted from the use of preserved timbers are; the reduction in operating costs by decrease in timber purchases; cuts down interference with mining operations due to timber failures on main haulageways; prevents excessive falling of roof in entries by maintaining timber in sound condition; conserves timber supplies and makes possible the utilization of inferior woods; reduces the danger of mine accidents; improves mine ventilation; lessens fire hazard. Our experience thus far with preservatives, while not of a sufficient period of time to establish just what length of life we may obtain from timber so treated, results obtained during the past four years indicate that the intelligent use of preservatives will effect sufficient economies in mine timber costs to justify the expenditures made for this purpose. MR. BAKER (Concluding): Now, if there are any questions you gentlemen would like to ask about our particular operations, I will attempt to answer them. J. H. EMRICK (Sullivan Machinery Company, Denver, Colo.) ; I was wondering how much penetration you get. MR. BAKER: We get between one-sixteenth and one-eighth of an inch; it is a dipping process. With pressure treatment you get-a greater absorption; that is, better than one-sixteenth of an inch. As long as there is no mechanical abrasion, it seems to serve the purpose. MR. EMRICK: Does that apply to the condition of the timber before it is treated? If it is perfectly dry, will it absorb more treatment than if it is partly green? MR. BAKER: Certainly; one of the things we do is to have it thoroughly seasoned before it is put into the preservative. We put some green timber into the mine once, and the fungus went after it right away. MR. EMRICK: What was the difference in the depth reached by the preservative? MR. BAKER: It hardly penetrated at all when it was green. It has to be sound and well seasoned. MR. EMRICK: How long was the timber dipped or treated? MR. BAKER: According to the seasoning. If it was well seasoned, it was left in the hot bath for an hour; if not so well seasoned, it was left for about a couple of hours. C. M. BILLINGTON (General Superintendent, Rocky Mountain Fuel Company, Lafayette, Colo.): Have you found it necessary to treat timber that has been charred? MR. BAKER: No. However, I suppose it has the sane effect; in lots of places they char timber for the purpose of treatment. MR. BILLINGTON: Have you ever tried lime and salt? MR. BAKER: No, this is the only thing we have tried, the creosote and the Aczol; the Aczol is a foreign product. WM. LITTLEJOHN: Which I is preferable, the Aczol or the creosote? MR. BAKER: I couldn't say as to that. MR. LITTLEJOHN: Have you had any tests as to the value of either? MR. BAKER: We have had some of the Aczol timbers in service for a little over four years; we have had some creosote timbers in service

Jan 1, 1926

C. P. SANDBERG, LONDON, ENG : † I think we should all be grateful to the Pennsylvania Railroad Company, and to their chemist, Dr., Dudley, for spending so much time and money in order to solve an important question ; nor are we less indebted to the public spirit which leads them to impart the experience thus gained. In Europe nothing similar has hitherto been done, either by a company or by any private individual. In England the great railway companies employ their engineers in other ways, and do not keep a chemist or specialist to study rails; but even if they did they would probably not publish the results. The chief professional engineers are so occupied with their private practice of railroad construction generally, that they cannot be expected to devote their time and energies to so special a question. The German Railway Union has, in my opinion, missed the real object of its elaborate researches by falling into the error of specifying costly, impracticable tests for rails-tests at the same time which do not infallibly expose the impurities that may be in the rails under examination. There has, therefore, been nothing done on this side of the Atlantic in the way of exhaustive study to determine the best composition for steel rails. America should consequently have full credit for the enlightened example which she has set. I wish, however, to make a few remarks on Dr. Dudley's second paper, a paper which follows very much upon the same lines of argument as the first read three years ago, upon which I have previously touched in my paper on the same subject read at the meeting in August last. If Dr. Dudley had discovered a new metal he could hardly, I think, have taken more pains to prove that he was correct in his first formula for the best chemical composition of steel rails. But I have seen so much done in the way of proof by experiment that I am inclined to think that almost anything can be proved by experiments and by samples. If Dr. Dudley would only give up his formula, which would not suit any country-not even America- * For the convenience of members it has bees thought best to insert the continuation of this discussion at the Virginia meeting in tide place, rather than to delay its permanent publication until the issue of Volume X, Transactions, where it would properly belong. T. M. D., Sec'y, † Sent to the secretary in manuscript.

Jan 1, 1881

By S. H. Logan

Mr. B. Neilly: A week or so ago the Secretary was good enough to forward me an advance copy of this paper by Mr. Logan and it was suggested that I comment on it at this meeting. At that time I was not very certain that I would be here, so I committed my thoughts to paper. As a matter of courtesy to Mr. Logan, I sent him a copy of my proposed remarks and I would like to give you just what I sent to him. Appreciating fully Mr. Logan's ability and many sources of information, one naturally hesitates to question anything seriously set forth as his considered opinion. Neither does one of my political stripe like to accuse him of being too 'conservative.? However, in places his paper reminds me of another general manager of a Canadian bank. While I was still Secretary of the Ontario Mining Association, this general manager wrote asking for our forecast on the current year's mineral production, stating that he proposed to refer to such production figures in his annual address to his shareholders. The request was considered very complimentary to the Ontario Mining Association and, in my opinion, justified a great deal of serious study and effort. Finally, the estimate was prepared and forwarded, showing a modest increase over the previous year's total. Picture our surprise and chagrin on reading his address to find that he predicted not an increase but, if you please, a decline of over $10,000,000. Before I cooled off I wrote asking the basis of such a prediction and got a reply to the effect that men in his position had to be ultra conservative in picturing the future.

Jan 1, 1931

By Gibson J.

Written discussion contributions to the paper presented at the North of England Institute of Mining and Mechanical Engineers' general meeting held in Newcastle-upon-Tyne, 12th February 1916, with Mr. T.Y. Greener, President, in the chair, comprise comments by Kilpatrick W.M., Routledge W.H., Watson J. and Smith W., along with the author's reply. Also briefly noted are the demonstration of two pieces of equipment, an incline chock and a cage arrestor

Dec 1, 1916

T. L. Joseph (University of Minnesota, Minneapolis, Minn.)—Mr. Killian is to be commended for his inquiry as to why a decrease of 15.3 pct in coke consumption was accompanied by a decrease of only 1.9 pct in the CO/CO, ratio of the top gas. Although I encouraged him in his efforts to find a more significant and meaningful carbon-gas ratio, the method, calculations, and conclusions originated entirely with the author. Whether we agree entirely with the assumptions underlying his corrected ratio, I think we can all agree that a better ratio is needed, and that he deserves credit for recognizing the need and for doing something about it. To be most useful, the CO/CO, ratio for the top gas should reflect the way in which the carbon is gasified in the furnace, particularly the degree of oxidation and the extent of heat release. The effect of CO, from the decomposition of the limestone and the effect of the reaction of CO and water vapor in the upper part of the furnace on the quality of top gas should be isolated from the effect of more basic reactions such as ore reduction and solution loss. The reduction of sufficient iron oxide to produce a ton of pig iron and the accompanying changes in the proportions of the carbon gases can be expressed on a mol basis as follows: 16.5FeA + 16.5CO - 33FeO + 16.5CO, [1] 33FeO + 33.0CO = 33Fe + 33CO. [2] The CO, from eq 1 normally escapes from the furnace because it does not react with coke at the temperature of its release. However, as much as 50 pct of the CO, from eq 2 may react with coke because it is released at temperatures above 1000°C: 16.5CO. + 16.5CO2 = 33CO [3] Thus we see that the gasification of 16.5 mols or about 200 lb of C in solution loss will regenerate as much CO as is required for the last stage of reduction. The pronounced effect of reaction 3 on the final proportions of CO and CO, in the gas stream is obvious. It also follows that reaction 3 materially alters the heat release but it cannot be entirely eliminated in Lake ore practice. A previous study indicates that 100 lb of solution loss may be necessary to maintain the reducing power of the gas. A reduction of 100 lb from the normal level of 200 lb would mean that over 1,-000,000 additional Btu are released in the process. The 100 lb of additional carbon which will be burned at the tuyeres will release 437,000 Btu and the absorption of 583,000 Btu by eq 3 would be prevented. One of the chief objectives of sized ore burdens and more uniform distribution of the gas stream is to minimize solution loss by completing reduction higher in the furnace and in turn to release the maximum amount of heat from the carbon charged. It was odd, indeed, to find that the use of sized ore and sinter in the careful tests reported by Dobscha had changed the CO/CO2 ratio very little. The author has stressed the close correlation between his corrected CO/CO, ratio and production. A correlation of fuel consumption and the CO/CO, might be more logical. Fuel consumption on the prepared ore burden decreased 15.3 pct whereas the corrected CO/CO2 ratio decreased 19.0 pct. Although this agreement between the reduction in fuel and the reduction in corrected CO/CO2 ratio is not as close as the correlation with tonnage, it indicates the corrected ratio is superior to the normal ratio which decreased less than 4 pct. Some adjustment should be made for the reaction: CO + H2O = CO2 + H2 —700Btu [41 because there is evidence to indicate that about one half of the hydrogen is formed in the upper 21 ft of

Jan 1, 1953

E. Hill, South Norwalk, Conn. (communication to the Secretary*) :—The phenomenon described by Dr. Ledoux, involving an apparently abnormal high temperature in the air-cylinders of compressors, has not been, so far as I know, discussed in technical literature. The common formula for the adiabatic compression of dry air does not account for heat suficient to flash ordinarily decent cylinder-oils, nor do the text-books include in their theoretical statements any quantitative consideration of the effect of leaks in the ideal machines which they contemplate. This lack I have endeavored to supply by preparing, in the form of a circular, for the use of the customers and correspondents of the Norwalk Iron-Works, a brief mathematical

Jan 1, 1904

Adolph Greiner, Seraing, Belgium:—I have nothing special to add to Professor Hubert's paper except to say that there are some little things that it would be well to have corrected when the paper comes to be published. In dealing with the thermal efficiency of the engine, you will find that the 29.84 per cent. was a very high one. Professor Hubert has forgotten those engines built under the Cockerill type, but he has referred to them in Appendix 11. At our works at Cockerill we have built 63 engines, giving 63,000 h.p., and the other companies who have received licenses have built 113 engines, making 103,000 h.p., and aggregating 176 engines and 166,000 h.p. Eight years ago I had the pleasure of giving to the Institute the results obtained up to that time. Since then a good many engines have been constructed. In 1898 I thought a blast-furnace producing 100 tons of pig iron would allow 3,000 h.p. Professor Witz and Professor Hubert show that with the same production of pig the new engines take 3,800 h.p. out of the gas. At present at Cockerill we make 700 to 800 tons of pig iron per day, and we hope to have 26,000 h.p. in a few years. At present we have only half of that in gas-engines, but we hope to have in five or six years all the gas out of these furnaces to the number of 25,000 or 26,000 h.p. Tom WEstGarth, Middlesbrough, England :—My contribution is not a paper in the ordinary sense of the word, because I am sure you will agree with me that what I have written is only supplementary to the other two papers. The notes are schedules of the larger-size gas-engines built by British engine-makers, of 500 h.p. and upwards. If you look at the schedules you will find that in England gas-engines have become quite ordinary motors for a good many purposes. It was at first thought that gas-engines were troublesome, and ill-

Jan 1, 1907

William Kent, New York, N. Y.:—The Institute may congratulate itself on the opportunity of reading the splendid address of President Brunton. It is an admirable summary of the progress that has been made in the mining and metallurgical arts in recent years. The paper rightly gives the chief credit for this progress to the aid which has been rendered to these arts by the advances in mechanics, chemistry, and electricity. It is notable that most of the headings in Mr. Brunton's address refer to the work of the mechanical engineer, the electrical engineer, and the chemist, rather than to that of the specialist in mining-operations. It seems that the most successful mining engineer of the present day is the one who makes the most intelligent application of the inventions and designs of engineers and others who are not directly engaged in mining. A tabulation of the headings of the address, grouped as below, shows this most clearly. Work of the Mechanical Engineer—Rock-drills, hoisting-machinery, tramming, pumping, ventilation, dredging, Sampling, concentration, briquetting, fume-recovery. Work of the Electrical Engineer—Electric machinery for hoisting, pumping, tramming, lighting and signaling, electric transmission, electric smelting. Work of the Chemist and Metallurgist—Explosives, chlorina-tion, cyanidation, roasting, lead-smelting, and copper-smelting. Work of the Geologist—Economic geology. Work of the Mining Engineer—Mine-mapping, surface-mining, timbering, tunneling; and planning and supervision of the work in general. The mining engineer of the present day, who is in responsible charge of a large plant, finds his chief work not in doing those things he was trained to do as a specialist, but in making use of the knowledge of geologists, chemists, and electrical and

Jan 1, 1910

A Discussion of the papers of James Gayley, on "The Application of Dry-Air Blast to the Manufacture of Iron" (see Trans., XXXV., 746, 1022, also pp. 315 and 745 of the present volume, and of J. E. Johnson, Jr., on "The Physical Action of the Blast-Furnace," p. 454. Chas. B. Dudley, Altoona, Pa.:—I am not a blast-furnace man, and this always puts me at a disadvantage because I cannot go into the details of the making of iron and steel. I have not the experience, and have to take the statements of other people, so what I say regarding the subject of this paper is not in the sense of an expert. When I first heard of Mr. Gayley's experiments, I said to myself, a I fear they will result in failure, since, apparently, Mr. Gayley has forgotten one chemical fact, namely, that carbon does not combine with oxygen in the absence of mater-vapor." This fact which was so astonishing when it was first brought out some years ago, and which those who are interested may find in the Journal of the Chemical Society of London, for 1885, page 349, and 1894, page 611, led me to think that the drying of the air would be a mistake. The general subject of the influence of water-vapor on chemical action is a large one; but the special point in which we are, for the moment, interested, namely, the influence of water-vapor on the combustion of carbon, was especially treated by Mr. H. B. Baker, in the papers referred to. Apparently, however, as the result of Mr. Gayley's experiments, we are to learn that the amount of moisture still left in the desiccated air is sufficient to secure perfectly satisfactory combustion. In thinking over Mr. Gayley's paper, it occurred to me that there were two alternatives, either of which might be chosen, namely, we might dry the air as Mr. Gayley does, or possibly we might, in a very much easier way, simply saturate the air at a constant temperature, and thus get uniform working and

Jan 1, 1906